Company claiming copyright laws, that they dont have...

[Dknight]

Hello

Firstly what a great forum, ive spent the last 3 days trying to find some kind of advice, and it is a difficult task!

The problem i am hit with, i apologize for my poor layout of the facts...

I currently sell stickers via ebay, i am UK based

I had 10 listings removed for breach of "intellectual property rights" which from my understanding is basically from something you design yourself? and someone using that?

the stickers in question look like this:

the listings that were removed were of different models of cars.

this was the email i received from ebay:

"Dear Dan,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to:

190256323318 - Down Out Sticker, Volkswagen Mk3 Golf (Gti Vr6)
190256325045 - Down Out Sticker, Volkswagen Corrado (Vr6 G60)
190256323065 - Down Out Sticker, Volkswagen Mk2 Golf (Gti G60)
190256322381 - Down Out Sticker, Volkswagen Mk1 Golf Cab (hood down)
190256324292 - Down Out Sticker, Volkswagen Mk2 Golf Jetta (Gti)
190256327720 - NO FAT CHICKS Sticker (mk4 polo) funny sticker
190256323777 - Down Out Sticker, Volkswagen Mk4 Golf (Gti)
190256321793 - Down Out Sticker, Volkswagen Mk1 Golf (GTI)
190256325480 - Down Out Sticker, Volkswagen New Beetle
190256324058 - Down Out Sticker, Volkswagen Mk5 Golf (Gti)

When we receive a properly documented request from a VeRO participant
asking us to remove an infringing item, we are required by federal law
to end it.

We removed the listings because EuroCrew PR alleged the listings offered
an unauthorized copy of their copyrighted work.

We don't have any more information about how your item infringed the
rights owner's intellectual property or how you can avoid having your
item ended again.

We urge you to contact the VeRO participant and direct your questions
and concerns regarding the removal of your listing to the rights owner.
You can contact the rights owner at:

-------------------------


For more information on the eBay VeRO Program, visit:

_____________________________________________________


Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Logan
eBay Customer Support"

He is based in the US

So he is claiming intellectual copyright, which i can confirm that the designs are my own, and for reference they are totally different to his designs.

here is one of his listings:
(wont let me link yet)


I have many questions like how has he convinced ebay that he owns all rights to the style of sticker? it is nothing but a style, its like claiming you have copyright for every picture of a house, its stupid.

But to keep it in track, i contacted ebay asking questions but they keep saying email the rights owner.

Which again, they cant possibly the rights owner!
But more importantly my designs are different to his!

It is quite clear he has reported my listing as i am direct competition to him.

So i do as ebay say and email the seller:

"These listings were removed from ebay on request from yourself, claiming intellectual copyright.

You have made a mistake, as my designs are not the same as yours, their are clear differences.

Please can you inform ebay of your mistake, so my listings can be reinstated.

If it was a genuine error on your part then i apprietiate that.
i look forward to your response


Dan Knight"

I was quite polite and to the point, now the response,
Here is the reply, im no law student but i can smell bullsh** a mile off

"Hi Daniel,

I know your artwork is original but the art down n out with the design is copyrighted. Please I just want you to understand that it's illegal to prepare derivate works or reproduce works based upon the work someone have made and copyrighted. Also I paid for my artwork to be copyrighted long time ago by the names Down N Out & No Fat Chicks so no one can prepare derivate works or reproduce works based upon the work was original made. But I just want you to know that I'm just taking action on the stickers I copyrighted not the polos and others you are selling because that's fine with me and I dont have the rigths for the other designs. Any other questions please feel free to contact me. Have a nice day.

Thanks,

Alexxx"

Now i have highlighted the main facts, i have LOADS of questions about what he says

firstly, how can you copyright a style of drawing?

illegal to produce derivate works or reproductions? i have never even seen his designs, and mine arent even the same, just the style!

Paid for his artwork copyrighted, ok if so, in america? or UK? either way it would cost a PACKET im sure.

So now the artwork is copyright owned? not just intellectual copyright?
If so where are the markings, the little c in a circle?

he is basically claiming copyright on words!?!?!
is he a comedian?

That is where i am at, im still waiting for ebay to reply, but im not holding out.

They have somehow got a hold on the ebay system and are abusing it!

I am not a major company, and any big legal cases would not be feesable, but the fact is they are faking copyright.

I hope i have made it all clear, if anyone has any questions please feel free to ask, any help or guidence you have would be greatly apprietiated


Ps also to add more confusion to the situation, the artwork that they are claiming to own, i am associated with the guy who designed them originally! and he freely lets people online have them, so they are claiming copyright on something they have found on the internet!

thanks

Dan

[monitortheweb]

Hi there,

I have quite a bit of experience from both sides of the fence when it comes to eBay and their VeRO process.

Sadly, I'm a new user and so can't paste in links, so go to Google and type in VeRO Counter Notice. The top link should take you to the tabberone site, which gives a *great* summary of what do to from here.

By filing a counter notice, you're basically saying that you dispute what the guy's saying, and that you do have a right to sell your items. He is then left with a choice: take out a restraining order in court or leave you be.

In my experience, *no-one* goes for the former, as they know they haven't got a leg to stand on.

Good luck!

[Dknight]

howdy

ah cool, well after alot of question asking and thinking, and emails with the guy, he was really thick and kept swearing by his copyright certificate, that ment nothing, US based if anything.

So i thought, for him to become Vero varified, he has submitted his designs etc

so, i printed all my designs, filled the form, submitted the notice, with his infringed items (technically they werent, but i was wanting to make an issue so ebay would address it)

Few days later, his listings were removed, he then emails me saying, i wont report yours if you stop reporting mine.

I replied with, thats fine, but just remember you made the first move in all of this!

So that was that, checked his account a few days later, and ebay have cancelled his account!!!!!

For whatever reason i dont know.

all very strange!

[monitortheweb]

Heh, nice one

Regarding his canceled account, eBay can be a funny bunch with regards to the VeRO process. Sometimes, if you report a load of designs, they'll suspend the seller's account for seven days, a month... or sometimes permanently!

Anyway, glad to hear it worked out for you.

[sipaton]

Hi there,

I have some designs i want to be protected via Ebays VeRo program, do I have to get a proof of design from the ipo.gov,uk website before i can submit them to VeRo?

If anyone could help i would be grateful,

Thanks

[AndyJ]

Hi sipaton,
First of all I suggest you contact the site admin (copyrightaid) and ask him to make this a new thread. After all your question seems to be different from the previous one and that was quite old.

Turning to your question, I'm not sure what you mean by 'designs' in this context. If they are three-dimensional objects which are largely practical in their function then they can be registered with the IPO and you will have proof (and protection) that they are your designs. You can also benefit from unregistered design right, which operates automatically, somewhat like copyright, but obviously this lacks advantage that you are able to prove they are your designs and when they were created. If you prefer this method, you can lodge copies of your unregistered designs with a private company like CopyrightService or your solicitor, bank etc but as this can work out more expensive, and provide less protection than registering with the IPO, I don't advise this.

If on the other hand by 'designs', you mean artwork which is purely artistic and decorative (paintings, drawings, cartoons etc) then these are covered by copyright alone and you don't need to register them. Indeed there is no formal method in the UK for registering copyright. Again if you feel it is worthwhile you can lodge copies of your artwork with a company like CopyrightService to establish when your work was created, but this does not 'prove' that you are the author. If it is practical to do it, you should make sure you put the © symbol, your name and year of creation on the artwork.

As far as the VeRO programme is concerned, I would ask them what you need to provide by way of proof of ownership. If you have registered your design with the IPO, then you will have a registration number you can quote. Be aware that as a US company Ebay operates to US law, and there is no such thing as a registered design under the American system, so they may refer to a Design Patent which is their nearest equivalent.

I hope this answers your question.

[sipaton]

Thanks for the reply, I received a similar email from Ebay regarding copyright infringements hence my post. Apologies if it is in the wrong section.

Hopefully i have enough information to proceed, i aim to contact the other dealer by email first! Lets see how that goes!

Cheers

Si