Whats the situation with filming a live dj set (the dj playing other peoples records of course!) using the sound recorded from the camera of the room noise then editing this - uploading to youtube/vimeo and then imbedding this video on a nightclub orientated website?
The DJ would have knowledge / give permission to film.
If no money is made - ie i do the filming and editing for free, would this have a factor as well?
Id also like to record the dj set, and do a longer multi cam live recording - similar to dance trippin -
and imbed this on a clubbing site (via vimeo/youtube).
I have few creative commons tracks which i can use - which are ok as long as you havent been paid for the video / used for professional / tv production etc..
I read an article where DJ Sasha, as soon as his set finished, the set was burnt to disc, and made available for people to buy on the night - to overcome ©, all tracks in his dj box were pre-licensed. How much would one track cost for a 2-4 minute video? If the club wanted the track, they woudl have to pay the license from mcprs prs etc..
Filming DJ Set in Nightclub - upload to Youtube ?
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stevem802002
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stevem802002
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have made a reply in 'music played in clubs while filming' thread.
I think a 2 min video just using camera sound ie 'incidental' would be ok - would only appear on youtube / vimeo (but imbedded on my nightclub site)
I would like to record long dj sets - up to one hour - using the exact audio from the booth.
would stipulating this cant / sont be downloaded cover © ?
I think a 2 min video just using camera sound ie 'incidental' would be ok - would only appear on youtube / vimeo (but imbedded on my nightclub site)
I would like to record long dj sets - up to one hour - using the exact audio from the booth.
would stipulating this cant / sont be downloaded cover © ?
Stevem,
The concept of incidental inclusion of copyright material is quite tricky, and a court would have to decide on a case by case basis, but I think that a video which featured the DJ (and his music) would not fall into the incidental category because the music is central to what he is doing. A simple test is: what would be the effect on the overall video if the music was edited out? This is a somewhat similar situation to another query on the forum about videoing an ice-skater's performance. In that instance, without the music, the performance of the skater would have been very dull and only reflect a small part of the experience.
You mention using creative commons music. This would obviously solve the problem of getting a licence to include copyright material and would seem a good solution. You have made the point that the creative commons material may not be used for financial gain, so as long as you only post the video as an advertisement for the club, or the DJ, that should be OK. If you go down the route of making a CD/DVD for sale, then you might as well bite the bullet and get a licence to use the commercial tracks which would make the CD more likely to sell.
I'm sorry that i can't give you any figures for what a licence might cost, as this will depend to a large extent on the artists/record companies who own the original copyright. The PRS will be able to give you a quote.
Whether or not copying is an infringement is not affected by whether the copying is for financial gain. The act of infringement is generally about publishing (ie making it available to the public) the copy. So that it is irrelevant whether you make the video only available for streaming and not downloading, if the actual video contains infringing material. Obviously if you want to protect your 'legal' work (ie a video which only contains creative commons music and made with the DJ's permission) then you should put a copyright notice on it and make it available only for streaming.
One final point which you didn't mention so it may not apply here, is the matter of mashups and remixing. The courts are having a hard time coming up with a clear ruling on when sampling does and does not constiute 'substantial' copying, and thus whether the remixed track infringes copyright in the original. This is a whole new minefield!
The concept of incidental inclusion of copyright material is quite tricky, and a court would have to decide on a case by case basis, but I think that a video which featured the DJ (and his music) would not fall into the incidental category because the music is central to what he is doing. A simple test is: what would be the effect on the overall video if the music was edited out? This is a somewhat similar situation to another query on the forum about videoing an ice-skater's performance. In that instance, without the music, the performance of the skater would have been very dull and only reflect a small part of the experience.
You mention using creative commons music. This would obviously solve the problem of getting a licence to include copyright material and would seem a good solution. You have made the point that the creative commons material may not be used for financial gain, so as long as you only post the video as an advertisement for the club, or the DJ, that should be OK. If you go down the route of making a CD/DVD for sale, then you might as well bite the bullet and get a licence to use the commercial tracks which would make the CD more likely to sell.
I'm sorry that i can't give you any figures for what a licence might cost, as this will depend to a large extent on the artists/record companies who own the original copyright. The PRS will be able to give you a quote.
Whether or not copying is an infringement is not affected by whether the copying is for financial gain. The act of infringement is generally about publishing (ie making it available to the public) the copy. So that it is irrelevant whether you make the video only available for streaming and not downloading, if the actual video contains infringing material. Obviously if you want to protect your 'legal' work (ie a video which only contains creative commons music and made with the DJ's permission) then you should put a copyright notice on it and make it available only for streaming.
One final point which you didn't mention so it may not apply here, is the matter of mashups and remixing. The courts are having a hard time coming up with a clear ruling on when sampling does and does not constiute 'substantial' copying, and thus whether the remixed track infringes copyright in the original. This is a whole new minefield!
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stevem802002
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- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:54 pm
- Location: UK
thanks for your reply.
I think CC music is the way to go - unless the dj/club brand have their own in-house tracks they give permission for me to use.
Most of the tracks I would use are from dance music record labels which arent that commercial - ie wont be in the top 40 so not sure if they are covered in the pRS etc.
MOst clubs ive dealt with dont want additional hassle - they just want a video of the night not extra paperwork, extra fees etc..
I have a word.doc Performer Release form which requires artists to sign, with a witness. Is there anyway to get this done over the internet - ie on a web page they click on 'I have read and understood the above conditions' which would be the Performer release form in the terms - So they would email / sendspace the music, then i would send them a link for them to 'check box' to confirm they give permission for me to use the track
It can be difficult to get written signatures for club videos as its a fairly casual engagement - turn up, film etc.. - its not a big deal for the clubs, much like still photos. - trying to make it as straight forwards as possible.
I think CC music is the way to go - unless the dj/club brand have their own in-house tracks they give permission for me to use.
Most of the tracks I would use are from dance music record labels which arent that commercial - ie wont be in the top 40 so not sure if they are covered in the pRS etc.
MOst clubs ive dealt with dont want additional hassle - they just want a video of the night not extra paperwork, extra fees etc..
I have a word.doc Performer Release form which requires artists to sign, with a witness. Is there anyway to get this done over the internet - ie on a web page they click on 'I have read and understood the above conditions' which would be the Performer release form in the terms - So they would email / sendspace the music, then i would send them a link for them to 'check box' to confirm they give permission for me to use the track
It can be difficult to get written signatures for club videos as its a fairly casual engagement - turn up, film etc.. - its not a big deal for the clubs, much like still photos. - trying to make it as straight forwards as possible.
Hi Steve,
I'm sure that using the CC music tracks is a sensible compromise given the aim of the project and the clubs' desire to keep things simple.
On the subject of Performer Releases, I can see problems with what you propose. Bear in mind that a music track involves several different forms of copyright: lyrics, music, the actual performance and where the music is not live, the recording itself. All these elements may involve seperate individuals. In the case of the recording, this copyright will almost invariably be owned by the record company and they are most unlikely to give permission without a licence fee or royalty being paid. Live bands on the other hand may be less money-oriented and more relaxed about their part, but could be prevented from giving their permission by any management or recording contract they have signed. A lot will depend on the actual bands - how 'professional' or recognised they are. This is why dealing with people like PRS makes the process somewhat easier where the artists have opted into the scheme.
Good luck with your project.
Andy
I'm sure that using the CC music tracks is a sensible compromise given the aim of the project and the clubs' desire to keep things simple.
On the subject of Performer Releases, I can see problems with what you propose. Bear in mind that a music track involves several different forms of copyright: lyrics, music, the actual performance and where the music is not live, the recording itself. All these elements may involve seperate individuals. In the case of the recording, this copyright will almost invariably be owned by the record company and they are most unlikely to give permission without a licence fee or royalty being paid. Live bands on the other hand may be less money-oriented and more relaxed about their part, but could be prevented from giving their permission by any management or recording contract they have signed. A lot will depend on the actual bands - how 'professional' or recognised they are. This is why dealing with people like PRS makes the process somewhat easier where the artists have opted into the scheme.
Good luck with your project.
Andy