PA Media infringment

[Footballguy]

Interesting to hear everyone's responses on here and I think to some degree it is positive that we are all having the same experiences. The thing that I thought of which was interesting was that when Adrian from PA originally emailed it was around April/March time and I hadn't been monitoring my emails, when I finally picked them up around June I had had several final reminders etc but then panicked and interacted, the question is, how serious were these final reminders if they went months sending them without any action? Had I not have responded then what would have happened as nothing had done for months?

My last contact to them was about a month ago in which I basically said there was nothing to worry about as I bought it fair and square from Alamy and when you buy from them it says you can use the imagine. Today I have received the below but this time from Adam! I'm wondering if that's because in the last email I also question if Adrian was a real person as he doesn't have a last name, so now they've introduced Adam. Either way, I've sent them back an email to say this email address is not monitored and requests won't be responded. Lets see what happens now

----------------------------------------------------------

Hello

Thank you for your email.

Alamy is not the license holder of the image. The copyright holder PA is pursuing a settlement for your unauthorised use of our image, not Alamy. Please view the PA Editorial and Commercial Rate Cards for website usage on the PA images website: https://www.paimages.co.uk/ . Please scroll to the bottom of the page to view both Rate Cards for Editorial and Commercial website usage.

Thanks
Adam

[CP85]

@bullnation I've had the same email in the last week. I'd previously made a reasonable offer and intend to wait it out. Even if it does go to "litigation" I don't see anywhere other than small claims court touching it. It would be a lot of hassle for them to go down that road with everyone.

[bullnation]

Interestingly, I too have now been introduced to Adam, see below:
-----------------------------------------------
"Hello,
I've recently joined the team to try and resolve some of the unsettled cases.

After reviewing your case and as a gesture of goodwill to resolve this amicably, PA Media Group will accept PA's lowest online Commercial Website license priced at £450 to conclude this matter.

To make the payment, please log into fairlicensing.pamediagroup.com using your case ID: 9THXP7 and your PIN: 817441 to settle this claim. In the portal you can see more details of the case. Once you have made the payment, you will be covered for the online use that we have found, and the case will be closed.

Thanks
Adam"
-----------------------------------------------

This comes across a very strange email, particularly after the previous email was threatening me with court if I didn't pay the £1500.

[AndyJ]

Certainly a new tactic, but ultimately just as unhelpful as their previous 'offers'. I wonder how successful Adam will be and how much he knows about the law.

[bullnation]

I gave the following response...

Good afternoon Adam,

I am not willing to agree to your inflated demands. I have made a beyond reasonable offer to you which I hope you will agree to.

Additionally, I hope you can appreciate that all I must go by with these interactions, are emails directed to me demanding large sums of cash. How would one know that you are not a phishing scam? For all intents and purposes, I am certain that it is – as such I will be reporting these emails for my safety. I therefore also request that you provide me with some proof of your legitimacy.

I will not be responding to further emails as I have tried for 4 months (or longer) to find an agreement that is fair.


I then received a response, which seems badly written....

Hi
We have a legal right to defend our copyright, and whilst it's been 4 months, you have not accepted our offer to resolve this breach.
Our next steps are to be decided, but we have made it clear that we do accept your 'offer'. It does not even begin to cover our costs incurred to date, or the loss of revenue from your use of our image, and the risk that your use has de-valued the image moving forward.
You'll continue to receive our automated reminders, as the situation remains unresolved.
Our legal time will decide the next course of action of the next couple of years.
Best,
Adam

[AndyJ]

Hi Bullnation,

It's hard to be certain, but that response hardly sounds like they are working hard to resolve the issue. My feeling is that this won't go any further, and even if you do continue to receive the odd 'automated reminder', Adam will have moved on to more productive cases.

[Disgruntled123]

"Our legal time (sic) will decide the next course of action of the next couple of years"!!

Next couple of years?!

Haha, that's such an absurd suggestion clearly designed to keep people fretting. What utter scabs they are.

[bullnation]

That did make me laugh to be honest - 'the next couple of years' bit took my threat levels right down, as it certainly does nothing to give a sense of urgency!

[JoshHilton]

Hey, was there any update on this? I've had a problem with an Adam too. I accidentally put an image up (which I thought I purchased from another stock library) as a placeholder for portfolio purposes on my website. Not sure whether or not to just cough up and pay or leave it...

[IPProtection]

My last contact to them was about a month ago in which I basically said there was nothing to worry about as I bought it fair and square from Alamy and when you buy from them it says you can use the imagine. Today I have received the below but this time from Adam!

----------------------------------------------------------

Hello

Thank you for your email.

Alamy is not the license holder of the image. The copyright holder PA is pursuing a settlement for your unauthorised use of our image, not Alamy. Please view the PA Editorial and Commercial Rate Cards for website usage on the PA images website: https://www.paimages.co.uk/ . Please scroll to the bottom of the page to view both Rate Cards for Editorial and Commercial website usage.

Thanks
Adam

What a bizarre response.

Without knowing what particular image the claim concerns, I should assume PA own the copyright, as stated in their reply here. It's for you to prove they don't, not for them to prove they do - however, if the image was shot by a contributor, rather than a PA Staff Photographer, then PA may NOT own the copyright to the image.. All depends on the status of the photographer and if they were paid a shift fee, or if they just contribute and receive royalties.

Now - Alamy is owned by PA - and PA do license their images through the Alamy platform. Assuming you are certain that you have licensed exactly the same photo and not a similar one, from Alamy - AND the license covers the particular type of use you made (eg: Commercial or Editorial etc), it doesn't matter what PA charge on their own website - THEY have made the image available through Alamy and the 'damage' caused by any infringement would be the lowest value the image is lawfully available for. If it were to go to court claiming a lost license fee of several hundred pounds and you could show the same image available on Alamy, a PA Media website for just a few pounds - then there might even be cause for you to seek your legal costs under CPR 27.14 for unreasonable behaviour, through PA bringing you to court for a disproportionate sum - especially when you have already purchased the license and made good the damage you already caused them (less their admin costs, of course).

You just need to make sure that the image you licensed from Alamy IS exactly the same one as the one in the claim, and that the license from Alamy covers the same type of use you made of the image.

Obviously - PA do have a right to enforce their copyright (assuming they own it, or have a contract with the copyright owner which explicitly grants them permission to enforce it on the rights owner's behalf), but they can't inflate their losses by having an unrealistic price on a hastily created XLS spreadsheet while the work is available for a few pounds on one of their other websites.

[Disgruntled123]

PA said the same to me.

Even though available for license by Alamy that's nothing to do with PA they claim. The Adrian fella even went on a rant claiming that they barely got any money from Alamy for licenses sold through them (which begs the question who made the business decision to allow Alamy to license the images). No, he says PA own the image and I owe them an extortionate amount because by mistake I didn't get a license in advance.

The funny thing was the title of their email to me while he was doing this was about Alamy infringement, not PA Media, and his email gave specific reference codes to the images. And those references were *Alamy* references used on the Alamy website.

They're scammers and this behaviour should be shut down!

[simonm]

Hi. Remember they have to take you to court and get a judgement against you. In my case our site was hacked and posts added to our wordpress install. I have removed all the posts (thousands) and the image in question. I welcome them trying to get a judgement against a hard working professional who had their site hacked. I have broken all communications and told them I would pass on their extortion to the police if they chose to request anything further.

[Kazzalisa]

So glad I found this forum, I have been beside myself with worry since receiving an email yesterday.
I stupidly thought any photo on Google images were ok to use on my website, otherwise they wouldn’t copy.
I have now had an email asking me to pay £450. I immediately took down the image but as a new ‘small’ business, I can’t afford this payment.
I just don’t know what to do, some have advised me to take the image down and ignore and some have said it needs to be paid and if not will just escalate.
I see this thread was started some while ago, and looks as though I should find the image for sale online and offer to pay that amount?
This seems like daylight robbery and making me wish I had stayed in employment rather than work for myself.

[AndyJ]

Hi Kazzalisa and welcome to the forum,

It seems to be the policy of these claims companies to go after small businesses because, I suppose, they are seen as more likely to just pay up to avoid the hassle, then write off the payment against tax. However the figure of £450 is not the loss which PA Media has sustained as a result of your error. Their loss is the cost of the licence that you failed to buy at the appropriate time, and this is the amount which a court would award them in damages. However this matter won't go to court because the expense of doing that is not economic for either the copyright owner or the claims company.

Read up on the many threads here which cover your situation and as you say, find out the actual cost of the appropriate licence and use that as the basis of your counter-offer to settle. Be firm and don't be bullied.

Good luck

[Kazzalisa]

Hi Kazzalisa and welcome to the forum,

It seems to be the policy of these claims companies to go after small businesses because, I suppose, they are seen as more likely to just pay up to avoid the hassle, then write off the payment against tax. However the figure of £450 is not the loss which PA Media has sustained as a result of your error. Their loss is the cost of the licence that you failed to buy at the appropriate time, and this is the amount which a court would award them in damages. However this matter won't go to court because the expense of doing that is not economic for either the copyright owner or the claims company.

Read up on the many threads here which cover your situation and as you say, find out the actual cost of the appropriate licence and use that as the basis of your counter-offer to settle. Be firm and don't be bullied.

Good luck

Hi Kazzalisa and welcome to the forum,

It seems to be the policy of these claims companies to go after small businesses because, I suppose, they are seen as more likely to just pay up to avoid the hassle, then write off the payment against tax. However the figure of £450 is not the loss which PA Media has sustained as a result of your error. Their loss is the cost of the licence that you failed to buy at the appropriate time, and this is the amount which a court would award them in damages. However this matter won't go to court because the expense of doing that is not economic for either the copyright owner or the claims company.

Read up on the many threads here which cover your situation and as you say, find out the actual cost of the appropriate licence and use that as the basis of your counter-offer to settle. Be firm and don't be bullied.

Good luck

I have received another email from them this week, after goind back and forth for a long while and making numerous settlement offers.

Sounds like they are trying to put the scarers on me - but I don't intend on paying the £1500 they are demanding. Likewise I will await to see if they take action. I have been back and forth with them for 5 months now...I feel the action would have come by now?
-------------
To Whom it May Concern,
This is our final reminder regarding the unauthorised use of our copyright-protected imagery, on your website, central-therapy.uk. Despite our previous correspondence, this matter remains unresolved, and it's imperative that you address it immediately. If you do not address this issue now we will escalate this matter to our legal team to evaluate litigation options.
Your continued inaction on this pressing issue is concerning. Let us once again be clear: If this infringement is not addressed promptly, this could lead to legal action, which would undoubtedly result in considerably higher costs for you.
------------

Thank you for your update. Now I have got over the initial panic, I have decided not to respond to email at all. If they wish to meme a legal claim they can do it through a solicitor and via post. As far as I am concerned, the email could be a scam, I can’t find the said image anywhere on their website.