Search found 3 matches
- Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:23 am
- Forum: Music Copyright
- Topic: Copyright usage on The Teddy Bears Picnic
- Replies: 12
- Views: 79923
- Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:57 am
- Forum: Music Copyright
- Topic: Copyright usage on The Teddy Bears Picnic
- Replies: 12
- Views: 79923
- Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:52 am
- Forum: Music Copyright
- Topic: Copyright usage on The Teddy Bears Picnic
- Replies: 12
- Views: 79923
Copyright usage on The Teddy Bears Picnic
I am looking to produce a 5 min short film to be released online (youtube). For a project I have been developing for a while, finally deciding to make a leap into financing a short to build interest/funding for a potential feature.
In it I want to use the song "The Teddy Bears Picnic". I was looking at using the original 1932 Henry Hall recording. To have the audio recorded off a gramophone. The title of the short was to be "Teddy Bears Picnic".
So this is where things get confusing and hence my query.
It's a complicated song as the melody was written in 1907 by John Walter Bratton (1831-1947) and lyrics added in 1932 by Jimmy Kennedy (1902-1984).
50% is owned by Warner (guessing lyrics) and 50% Sony (melody). I have been in communication with both, whatever one party charges I have to match the highest rate to both (mfn with copub).
The price went from ""If it's for YouTube only and it's not branded there shouldn't be any issues"", to a reasonable (but not cheap) sum, to then doubling if the title of the short was to be "Teddy Bears Picnic". As "This makes things more difficult to approve because don't want the song to seem like it's directly associated".
The other party has said, it's fine and if i re-record (cover) it and not alter anything, there would be no charge and don't see an issue with using the title "Teddy Bears Picnic". I then queried this with the other party and they have still said Re-Recording or not the suggested fee is X, as I'm using the title "Teddy bears picnic" (which would actually about £100 less than just use the masters).
All this is pending approval! Which I'm concerned I wont get it due to the nature of the story. Im worried Ill be damned if i do and damned if i don't. If one party doesn't like the treatment and refuses approval after I've agreed to a fee. I will then have major trouble so I need to look for possible work arounds regardless and it's just a case of being cheap/cutting costs but I really want explore all options to get some back up plans.
A) Can they copy right "Teddy bears picnic" usage?
B) Can they Do a cease and desist if I just re-record it and use that version of my own? one has said "we would SUGGEST the following feesâ€. If I title the film and then use the song within it, am in danger of deformation, if the film is considered inappropriate for children, who they consider the song's primary audience.
C) If I re-record JUST melody NO lyrics and use the title "Teddy Bears Picnic". Would this be acceptable? Circumnavigate one party involvement as the Melody is called "The Teddy bears Picnic", before the lyrics where added later. I have original sheet music copyright 1907 by M.Witmark & Sons. So would that violate copyright/licensing laws?
D) If I paid the lyrics people the X amount but re recorded it would I then not have to pay the melody people? (effectively halving costs). Or would this not work still because of the mfn.
E) Does the fact that the song is "The Teddy bears picnic" and i want to call the short "Teddy bears picnic" alter anything. Are there be any title abbreviation loopholes? like Bears' apostrophe or "The Teddy bears picnicSomethingâ€, “Teddy bears Somethingâ€, “The bears picnicâ€, “Teddy bears†or simply “Teddyâ€.
F) Where do I stand having just the melody playing on something like an old music box?
I spoke to one about the possibility of the Melody entering into the public domain next year. but they said it never happens. I don't want to spend all the time and money and have its hit with a cease and desist from a giant corp with lawyers paid more per hour than most short film budgets. I want this to be above board as possible to appeal to backers beyond just the short. Someone mentioned E&O insurance, not sure what that is? Would a lawyer need to go over it all legal to make it secure?
I want this to be above board as possible to appeal to backers beyond just the short.
Any help is Incredibly grateful, Thanks!
In it I want to use the song "The Teddy Bears Picnic". I was looking at using the original 1932 Henry Hall recording. To have the audio recorded off a gramophone. The title of the short was to be "Teddy Bears Picnic".
So this is where things get confusing and hence my query.
It's a complicated song as the melody was written in 1907 by John Walter Bratton (1831-1947) and lyrics added in 1932 by Jimmy Kennedy (1902-1984).
50% is owned by Warner (guessing lyrics) and 50% Sony (melody). I have been in communication with both, whatever one party charges I have to match the highest rate to both (mfn with copub).
The price went from ""If it's for YouTube only and it's not branded there shouldn't be any issues"", to a reasonable (but not cheap) sum, to then doubling if the title of the short was to be "Teddy Bears Picnic". As "This makes things more difficult to approve because don't want the song to seem like it's directly associated".
The other party has said, it's fine and if i re-record (cover) it and not alter anything, there would be no charge and don't see an issue with using the title "Teddy Bears Picnic". I then queried this with the other party and they have still said Re-Recording or not the suggested fee is X, as I'm using the title "Teddy bears picnic" (which would actually about £100 less than just use the masters).
All this is pending approval! Which I'm concerned I wont get it due to the nature of the story. Im worried Ill be damned if i do and damned if i don't. If one party doesn't like the treatment and refuses approval after I've agreed to a fee. I will then have major trouble so I need to look for possible work arounds regardless and it's just a case of being cheap/cutting costs but I really want explore all options to get some back up plans.
A) Can they copy right "Teddy bears picnic" usage?
B) Can they Do a cease and desist if I just re-record it and use that version of my own? one has said "we would SUGGEST the following feesâ€. If I title the film and then use the song within it, am in danger of deformation, if the film is considered inappropriate for children, who they consider the song's primary audience.
C) If I re-record JUST melody NO lyrics and use the title "Teddy Bears Picnic". Would this be acceptable? Circumnavigate one party involvement as the Melody is called "The Teddy bears Picnic", before the lyrics where added later. I have original sheet music copyright 1907 by M.Witmark & Sons. So would that violate copyright/licensing laws?
D) If I paid the lyrics people the X amount but re recorded it would I then not have to pay the melody people? (effectively halving costs). Or would this not work still because of the mfn.
E) Does the fact that the song is "The Teddy bears picnic" and i want to call the short "Teddy bears picnic" alter anything. Are there be any title abbreviation loopholes? like Bears' apostrophe or "The Teddy bears picnicSomethingâ€, “Teddy bears Somethingâ€, “The bears picnicâ€, “Teddy bears†or simply “Teddyâ€.
F) Where do I stand having just the melody playing on something like an old music box?
I spoke to one about the possibility of the Melody entering into the public domain next year. but they said it never happens. I don't want to spend all the time and money and have its hit with a cease and desist from a giant corp with lawyers paid more per hour than most short film budgets. I want this to be above board as possible to appeal to backers beyond just the short. Someone mentioned E&O insurance, not sure what that is? Would a lawyer need to go over it all legal to make it secure?
I want this to be above board as possible to appeal to backers beyond just the short.
Any help is Incredibly grateful, Thanks!